Would like to rely on prayer, but…..

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

SilentDawning wrote:

Not really trying to trick God, but it would be nice to make blessings more predictably associated with prayer. The key would be to NOT expect anything, and then, if/when it happens to be thankful.

If you believe “there is a law irrevocably decreed….” (not sure I do, but it would explain some things) then blessings don’t really come from prayer anyway unless prayer is a commandment (don’t believe it is) and the particular thing you seek is from obeying that particular commandment. IOW, I don’t think any of us can say I got X blessing because I didn’t murder anyone today or I got Y blessing because I kept the Sabbath. We don’t seem to know which blessing are tied to which commandments.

I don’t disagree with the notion that when we recognize a blessing we can express gratitude for it regardless of how it came about. But as I have said before, I don’t believe God blesses or curses us during this life – what happens, happens (and there are of course consequences to some decisions).

Interesting thought! The idea that blessings come from obeying commandments, not from prayer itself.

As I reflect on it though, I do believe there is a commandment that we pray for the things we need. God may bless us for merely praying.

Quote:

17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;

18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save.

19 Yea, humble yourselves, and continue in prayer unto him.

20 Cry unto him when ye are in your fields, yea, over all your flocks.

21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.

22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your enemies.

23 Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.

24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.

25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.

26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.

27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.

The following scripture also seems to suggest prayer alone can be effective:

Quote:

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

[Anonymous]

I see Alma 34 as Alma’s opinion, and I think many of Alma’s opinions were wrong. I’m not a huge fan of Alma. And even he does not come out and say “thus sayeth the Lord, ye are commanded to pray” it’s more of an exhortation or testimony.

The Bible Dictionary does make it pretty clear

Quote:

Prayer is nowhere specifically commanded as a duty in the law….

The BD does go on to cite some NT references to prayer, but those references never specify prayer as a commandment, rather they seem to offer advice about how to pray.

Further, in the “standard of worthiness” temple recommend interview we are not asked if we pray, but we are asked about the WoW, tithing, the Sabbath and honesty. If prayer was really a commandment and that important it would be asked about there. (Of course I also recognize that they don’t ask directly if I’ve murdered anyone.)

I’m not saying there’s no value in prayer for many (most?) people, and I’m not denying Joseph Smith’s FV experience where he asked to be forgiven of his sins and was. I am saying prayer is not a commandment, obligation or requirement except in some very certain and specific instances (sacrament prayers, for example). I am also saying that in my experience “ask and ye shall receive” has not been the case, and if the “prayer of a righteous man availeth much” I am apparently far from righteous. If you find value in it, by all means do it – but don’t project guilt on me if I choose not to and don’t expect me to parrot things I don’t believe.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

I do pray for ONE THING now and then, and am persistent at it, but only when I see no way of getting the thing I want through my own efforts. So, the fact that I ask for something and HOPE that it comes to fruition shows faith that God hears prayers and sometimes answers them.

This to me sounds like a slot machine God. If I pray and I am persistent then sometimes I will receive the thing that I am praying for that is outside of my own control?

The stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. To me, it seems like continuing to ask for God to change some unchangeable thing in my life would serve to keep me in the bargaining stage and prevent me from reaching the acceptance stage (not that the stages are completely linear).

SilentDawning wrote:

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

As you know, the catalyst for my faith crisis was along these lines. If God is “bound” to bless me due to prayers, tithing, dedicated priesthood service then did God breach the covenant contract when He failed to protect the life of my stillborn child. Where is the customer service representative that I can speak to about my complaint? How do I file a claim? (it can be argued that the contract did not apply to this life but only to the next life but the thrust of your question seems to be “how to make prayer effective and reliable IN THIS LIFE?”)

For my own sanity, I have had to change my worldview such that 1) God does not intervene in earthly affairs, 2) God only intervenes when absolutely necessary to accomplish His purposes or 3) God intervenes when and where He may but it is impossible to predict or influence the outcome.

Because of this, I tend to discount such scriptures as the result of magical world thinking (I do not say that with any malice and again I have to take this position for my own sanity).

Accordingly, when there is a situation that is outside of my control I find it best to move towards acceptance.

[Anonymous]

I try to keep a prayer in my heart – to live with a prayerful attitude. I don’t “rely” on prayer, per se.

I believe in prayers of thanks and supplication – not prayers of expectation. This, I can express my hopes and desires without disappointment.

I don’t believe God hears our prayers or that angels record them. I pray for my own well-being, not for any outcomes.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

Not really trying to trick God, but it would be nice to make blessings more predictably associated with prayer. The key would be to NOT expect anything, and then, if/when it happens to be thankful.

It is hard for me not to want to see instant results especially when praying about something urgent, but when it comes to Faith issues it’s even worse. Wanting and needing some faithful reinforcement is difficult… I don’t really know how to complete this thought because I am in a prayer transition phase right now. I don’t pray as much as I used to, I’m wondering if prayer is more of a self-reflection and internalizing questions, reinforcing gratitude, etc.

Like Roy said I don’t think we can bind God through prayer.

What prayers I do these days are more along the lines of meditative thought. And like Heber I do this more when walking and in the outdoors. Not listening to music helps me think and internalize.

[Anonymous]

I think there opts power in prayer – for those who believe there is.

Beyond that, I don’t know – but that is powerful to me.

[Author]

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