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This thought was prompted by the thread about serving missions again. I joined the church when I was 21, served a mission, married in the temple, served in bishoprics, etc. Part of my faith crisis was the whole idea that I was held to a higher standard simply because I was a member of “God’s true church” while others, some of whom clearly did not love their neighbors and clearly did despicable things to others were “scot free.” I still struggle with this to an extent, but I have come to an understanding I can live with regarding it. I did think during my FC that if I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now would I join the church again? The answer for me is actually no – partly because it would be silly to choose a higher more severe judgement because I supposedly knew more than my peers, but also partly because of the heaps of guilt I have felt from the church for many years (among other things). History and doctrinal issues aside, what do you all think? If you knew then what you know now, would you join the church?
(My apologies to lifelong members. While I know each of us must be converted, this question does not apply to you in the same way. However, your input is welcome.)
I asked myself this question a lot while I was on my mission. If I was on the other side, would I accept the gospel and be baptized? My answer was usually no. I don’t think I would. This points to the fact that my membership and continued affiliation with the church is 100% about my family, friends, and social connections and very little to do with the doctrine. The church is my tribe. I try to be a Mormon because I don’t want to get kicked out of my tribe. This is a pre-cognitive thought or emotion bred into us by evolution. Getting kicked out of the tribe is end of the line for me and my genetics. We can’t help but be extremely anxious about doing things that would cause us to loose our status or position in our tribe. This is why most ex-mos never fit in well to begin with and thus may find it easier to leave, and I would wager that most of those on this forum who are struggling to stay in, including me, fit into the Mormon tribe well.
I have an Iranian student who told me once that if he found more good and truth in Christianity than he found in Islam, that he would convert to Christianity and I called BS. There would be way too many social consequences, and even potential physical harm for him to do this and he could never give Christianity an unbiased evaluation. I admit that I have not given Islam an unbiased evaluation even though they outnumber Mormons like 300 to 1.
Long answer to the question, but no I wouldn’t join the church as an outsider. I’m afraid to pay the social consequences of leaving now. I certainly wouldn’t be willing to pay high social consequences to get in.
Probably not. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yes – and there is a thread in our archives about a very similar question. I will try to find it and provide a link. “
Am I Crazy to Want to Join the Church?” ( http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4187&hilit=join+the+church I joined the church at 19 and served a mission. So a similar background. Would I join the church again? No. These days I try to avoid things that place artificial limits on theology.
That said I don’t think I would have come to that conclusion without having joined the church. The church was the gate I needed to enter to get to where I am today.
To be honest, I don’t feel like I ever really consciously joined the Church of my own volition. Basically I was born into it and I never felt like completely rejecting the Church would ever be considered a valid and understandable choice by those around me. If I hadn’t been born and raised in the Church and if I already knew some of the things about it that I know now then I definitely wouldn’t join it. It is not so much some of the doctrines that I don’t believe and the embarrassing history and contradictions that would prevent me from joining as much as the overbearing expectations that all active members should believe all this and accept all the strict rules and heavy demands that the Church currently asks for. Personally I think Church leaders should pay more attention to how this actually sounds to average investigators and less faithful members especially now that the internet has made it so easy to find information that makes it difficult if not impossible for many perfectly decent and open-minded people to really buy into some of these claims and justify the relatively high costs of being a typical active member. I’m not sure. I did benefit greatly from it in the beginning. I met a mentor who got me into a very good school, nationally recognized. He trained me in leadership. My mission president was awesome and helped me overcome a few personality weaknesses (awkward in conversation). I got some good leadership experience with volunteers that has shaped my own philosophy and prepared me for some very fulfilling community service today. I had some very good spiritual experiences. I think the church principles kept me morally clean until marriage, and I made some good friends early on. It kept me out of trouble.
The part I don’t like is the temple part. I lived in an area that was sparsely populated with Mormons and it took me until I was almost 30 to find someone suitable. The temple also alienated my biological, non-member family, and I have a terrible relationship with some of them now. I feel very much alone in the world, except for my kids and wife. I regret the tithing I paid as I feel the church doesn’t need it. It could have been used for other worthy causes, and my later church experiences triggered clinical depression when I was doing just fine in all other areas of my life. And I feel that I dedicated most of my adult life to our church, which sells you out in a heartbeat when they think you violated non-doctrinal policy and church norms.
Would I do it again? Not sure. Its been a mixed bag. If I could be a member for the first 15 years of my life, and then press a restart button for the remainder where I’m a benchwarmer in a church that keeps me mindful of God, with no temple commitments, that would be the best of both worlds.
If I was at the same point in my life journey as I was when I served a mission then Yes – I might join on just the power of conviction that it was the only way to truly please God and return to him. From My current position and without the already existing support stucture of family and heritage then No I would not.
I think that any gay person would be crazy to join the church as it currently stands. I’m only here because of fall and return perhaps. Would I?
I think the programs are great, but I miss YSA.
But the temple would probably be a block if I joined now. (Without my current knowledge)
turinturambar wrote:I think that any gay person would be crazy to join the church as it currently stands.
It’s not welcoming to gays for sure.
I wonder how I would look on it as a woman too. Or a black.
I do think however, the church has improved in many ways over the past two or three or four decades.
I would given the same circumstances, but I could go back 42 years with what I know today, I think the answer would be no. The church was what I needed and wanted at the time of my baptism. turinturambar wrote:I think that any gay person would be crazy to join the church as it currently stands.
I totally agree with you, T, but at the same time I think there are gay converts. Why? Because the missionaries don’t talk about it. The gay person gains a testimony of the church and/or Joseph Smith and/or the Book of Mormon and desires to join. That’s the goal of the missionary program. Like other things, SSA is not discussed at all during the lessons or interviews. The problem is that I don’t think the missionaries should talk about it, because I believe that the real conversion taking place is spiritual and actually has little to do with the church. With modern technology the church’s stance and treatment of gays (and blacks and women) can be abundantly clear, but I do recall my feelings when I was converted and I would have joined the church (I think, I can’t say) regardless.
DarkJedi wrote:turinturambar wrote:I think that any gay person would be crazy to join the church as it currently stands.
SSA is not discussed at all during the lessons or interviews.
I know at least two gay converts, one of which I baptized on my mission and neither of which I would classify as crazy. The question actually did come up in the interview for the convert I baptized. I’m not sure if he was asked or if he brought it up, but he had to interview with the MP and the SP before he could be baptized. This was the “standard procedure”, so it wasn’t an isolated event.
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