Would you want to be a leader in the celestial kingdom?

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

This life is the time to prepare to meet God…

That’s not the only thing Alma is wrong about IMO. :eh:

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

Take a bunch of exMission Presidents and Bishops and SP’s and reliable people, you need a different leadership model than if you have people you literally have to DRAG to cross the finish line.

IMO that’s only the case if you assume that the church was the one and only true church and that leaders were 100% correct about the afterlife. If not, why would MPs, BPs, and SPs be somehow better off than anyone else… and why would we need to drag anyone across any line?

There’s the school of thought that people don’t end up in a “kingdom” they earn, they end up in a kingdom that suits them. There’s a subtle difference. A kingdom of leaders leading, BPs, SPs, etc. would not suit me.

[Anonymous]

I will be whatever is needed wherever I end up, if there is an afterlife similar to what we teach.

I don’t worry about it or even think about it any more than necessary. I try to focus on this life, since it is the only thing that is “real” right now.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I don’t worry about it or even think about it any more than necessary. I try to focus on this life, since it is the only thing that is “real” right now.

A decent point. But if we are going to focus on this life I would have to say that if there is any aspect to the LDS Church that I would do away with OR minimize OR change it would be this emphasis on LEADERSHIP. The upper echelons of the Church seem fascinated by the construct and the lower echelons try to get by (though a few are also fascinated enough to desire to get to the upper echelons). I think Christ’s concepts of compassion and goodness and service are most critical in this life (and getting to the next…if you want to talk about that).

At the ward level, “leadership” is synonymous with “obedience.” If you want to do something innovative (or shall we say “disruptive”) as a bishop, you’ll quickly be shot down if it varies too much from established procedures. Not that that is a bad thing, but just don’t call it leadership and don’t assume that experiences in the presidencies of the Young Men’s, Young Women’s, Elders, Relief Society, Primary are going to turn you into a “leader.” They may make you a better person but not necessarily a better leader.

Okay, I think I’m on the verge of ranting but it’s kind of a hot button topic for me personally.

[Anonymous]

There are definitely a lot of BAD examples of leadership in the church.

It’s why I always appreciate the few that buck the trend and do it their own way.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think it is fair to say only a few do it right. In my 50+ years in the Church, I have seen more do it right (or, at least, do it well) than do it badly. I also have seen FAR more do it sincerely and at personal sacrifice than do it insincerely or for personal gain.

I agree that we get lots of mediocre leaders in church, but I have many more good ones than bad ones. It’s just that the bad ones have such a negative impact that they tend to dominate our memories.

I also understand leadership roulette well enough to know that my experience, while diverse geographically, is not universal

[Anonymous]

Old Timer wrote:

I agree that we get lots of mediocre leaders in church, but I have many more good ones than bad ones.

I think it is fair to say that there is a lack of training for our leadership and this is a function of our lay clergy. It seems to me that our leaders’ leadership styles are a reflection of 1) church culture and policies, 2) their personalities, and 3) their profession (and professional training) outside of church.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

I agree that we get lots of mediocre leaders in church, but I have many more good ones than bad ones.

I think it is fair to say that there is a lack of training for our leadership and this is a function of our lay clergy. It seems to me that our leaders’ leadership styles are a reflection of 1) church culture and policies, 2) their personalities, and 3) their profession (and professional training) outside of church.

Question I’d like to put out there: Do you think the LDS Church is effective in cultivating good, strong leadership skills?

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

Question I’d like to put out there: Do you think the LDS Church is effective in cultivating good, strong leadership skills?

Maybe.

The church sets up the following (for the good):

A) Opportunities a person wouldn’t normally have.

Support/Mentorship for some callings.

C) Motivation for people in some areas.

Conversely:

A) People like SilentDawning make/find their opportunities, so it can be done.

For every account of someone being supported/mentored in a calling, you have others being left hanging/unsupported.

C) You can create your own bait-carrot scenarios to do what you have a vision of doing.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I think it is fair to say that there is a lack of training for our leadership and this is a function of our lay clergy. It seems to me that our leaders’ leadership styles are a reflection of 1) church culture and policies, 2) their personalities, and 3) their profession (and professional training) outside of church.

Agreed, especially when put into context of what kinds of industries are in a local area. My ward was once the home of a major defense contractor (which has since significantly downsized). I’ve lived in my ward for nearly 30 years – our current bishop is the first one who was not an engineer employed by the defense contractor and our current bishopric is the only one that does not have at least one employee of the defense contractor. There were times when all three were engineers. And while our part of the stake has had this downsizing, another part has seen the significant growth of a major well known company which employs many business types (our SP and one counselor work there in addition to two bishops) and another part of our stake his home to a major university where the majority of leaders are professors (I can’t remember them ever having a bishop who was not a professor – usually of business or economics). I can honestly see the difference in a ward led by an engineer as opposed to a ward led by a professor. As I think about it, many of each type (engineers, businessmen, and professors) are Utah transplants. I don’t mean to indicate that all of those engineers, businessmen and professors are/were bad leaders – they are/were mostly good, and every leader has good and not-as-good points. Also, point of view is important – while I may not like the analytical style of an engineer or the data focus of a businessman doesn’t mean others see it the same way.

Even looking at the bigger picture, many of our GAs were businessmen or lawyers.

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

Question I’d like to put out there: Do you think the LDS Church is effective in cultivating good, strong leadership skills?

In general, no. I think there are some general leadership skills that apply to all areas of life, some that apply to professions, and others that apply to church leadership. I think there is a reliance on the outside leadership skills (innate and/or from training). I think the church leadership skills often come from observation of the culture. That said, I will admit that in my current calling I have learned a great deal about what a council is and how it should run – but I think that’s mostly because my SP is very skilled at it and I honestly think that is somewhat rare. FWIW, I have applied some of those council skills at work (I am the only Mormon) with fairly good success.

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

Question I’d like to put out there: Do you think the LDS Church is effective in cultivating good, strong leadership skills?

Some yes, some no.

I believe that the church is good at helping people become accustomed to public speaking, shaking hands, looking people in the eye, wearing a shirt and tie, and participating in running the church program (as opposed to a more passive sunday experience). I also believe that the church’s emphasis on education tends to help prepare the membership for leadership opportunities (since education and leadership tend to go together in business). Church can also be an amazing networking opportunity.

I have known families and individuals that would be very well served learning some of these skills. OTOH, I am not sure that these skills are really leadership skills in the stirctest sense.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Do you think the LDS Church is effective in cultivating good, strong leadership skills?

Yes and no – just like pretty much any organization in which I have been involved throughout my life.

I do think the Church is good at spreading leadership opportunities to lots of people – and that is both a good and bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I have known families and individuals that would be very well served learning some of these skills. OTOH, I am not sure that these skills are really leadership skills in the stirctest sense.

And I’m not sure everyone wants or needs those skills. Sometimes I think we try to make people into something they aren’t and don’t want to be.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Some yes, some no.

I believe that the church is good at helping people become accustomed to public speaking, shaking hands, looking people in the eye, wearing a shirt and tie, and participating in running the church program (as opposed to a more passive sunday experience).

This is what I’d say too. One of the best and worst things the Church has going for it (whether true or not), is the individual heavenly mandate. I once heard people are more afraid of public speaking than death. I’m not sure how true that is… but having a member called by a clergyman who “speaks for God”, imbues the individual with confidence they wouldn’t have otherwise. While most people might fear public speaking, I’d say most members enjoy it. Fast and testimony meeting is a great example of this too. No one is called to speak (usually), only as they feel prompted. And folks get up to the pulpit on their own accord. Sometimes, this is an incredible experience, both for the speaker and the congregation. Sometimes, they say and do some pretty crazy stuff.

Confidence and opportunity can make a great leader. But it can also backfire, and create a lot of people who think they are good leaders, when they’re really quite awful. I think there’s a lack of opportunity to cultivate natural leadership, because of all the emphasis on revelation and acting by the spirit. It’s like an unkept garden. Everything is allowed to grow, and of course some strong trees will make it to the top, but things are bound to get messy.

[Author]

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