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What about priesthood blessings for comfort and counsel, or for the healing of the sick? Also, a person could conceivably be WORTHy to hold a temple recommend, but not actually hold one. As much as having a TR is a worthy thing for some people, I also see the blessings of being worthy to have one, but not actually possessing one.
Quote:What about priesthood blessings for comfort and counsel, or for the healing of the sick?
The only requirement for blessings where the Priesthood is invoked is that the Priesthood was conferred at some point and excommunication did not occur afterward. That’s it.
For non-priesthood blessings of any kind, anyone can “pray over someone else” in faith. For example, some of the most powerful healers I have known in my life had the gift of healing but not the Priesthood. Some were LDS; others were not.
We’re overworking what it means to be worthy. If you hold the priesthood and are worthy enough to partake of the sacrament, you’re worthy to participate in priesthood blessings. As noted, the ‘worthy of a TR’–a higher standard–is required to be voice in confirming a member, conferring the priesthood, or setting apart to an office. keep it simple. keep it simple. keep it simple.
That was my understanding. One thing I like that Ray suggested some time ago was that a woman could lay her hands on someone’s head and give a prayer of faith. They don’t invoke the priesthood, but they can give the blessing as a prayer. I think that might bring the same kind of emotional comfort benefits that a priesthood blessing provides. Dear Shades of Gray, There was a talk given about a year ago (I believe it was from President Packer) about the importance of fathers participating in family ordinances. The thrust of it for me was that relationships matter more than legalism. Yes, there are some guidelines in the CHI and some leeway for the local authority to use his own best judgment. I believe these guidelines are good and useful for running a church. I do not believe that these guidelines necessarily represent the mind and will of God on the matter. For some perspective, it is sometimes useful to look at church history. As others have alluded, women have given non-priesthood healings (such as Mary Fielding Smith healing her oxen on the plains and for years after arriving in Utah women would perform the non-priesthood blessing of women in childbirth). Lucy Mack Smith may have seen herself as the Matriarch of the church and is known to have given blessings that appear similar to Patriarchal blessings. Did these blessings count? Did they anger God? Did he let them slide only because nobody had thought to write up a CHI?
Shades of Grey wrote:I feel like I need a real detailed list of what I can and can’t do- as a non-temple”ite” I have no problem humbly taking my seat at the back of bus- I just need to know the do’s and don’ts because the last thing I want is my actions to null someone’s confirmation of the Holy Spirit.
Two thoughts:
1) Would a “non-worthy” deacon’s quorum (say that had un-confessed issues with M [ie “self abuse”]) invalidate the entire wards participation in the Sacrament?
2) I understand your desire for clarification – but it is entirely possible that petitions for clarification have resulted in many unnecessary rules; a “hedge around the law” if you will that can actually impede worship that is fueled by spirit and truth. The Savior himself was constantly fighting against well intentioned but manmade religious rules. I desire to participate in the church with my family from a position of honor and not of shame. I am grateful that although the church currently highlights the TR as a sign of worthiness, it does not necessarily equate the absence of a TR as a sign of unworthiness. I serve, participate, strengthen and am strengthened in this grey area where I must depend on personal revelation to define my standing before my Father. If the church were to clarify this issue with a blanket rule, leaving no room for individual circumstances and personal judgment – they would probably clarify me right out of the church.
There was a talk about a couple of people who lived in a remote location and could not visit the temple. They both got interviewed for a TR, and were very proud of the fact, despite not being able to go etc etc. I never saw the point in this story. By all means, try to live to the standards, but if you can’t get to the temple, don’t bother with a TR IMHO.
Sam, for some members, it is the act of going to a person in authority (Bishop or BP) & declare that they are worthy. For me, if it makes them feel good, do it. If it doesn’t don’t.
Alot about the experience depends on the person(s) giving the interview. (Bishop & SP)
For me, I usually come away feeling guilty about something again.
Mike from Milton.
I really don’t see the point of an interview for something you’re never going to use. If you’re worthy, you’ll probably know it. The interview is a formality really. Sometimes I think we’re in a total business environment with interviews for promotion and suits all over the shop.
Roy said Quote:The Savior himself was constantly fighting against well intentioned but manmade religious rules. I desire to participate in the church with my family from a position of honor and not of shame. I am grateful that although the church currently highlights the TR as a sign of worthiness, it does not necessarily equate the absence of a TR as a sign of unworthiness.
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. Roy a speacial thanks for your detailed post and the quote above- Shades of Grey was forgetting his own montra…the way you phrased that last sentence about the absence of a TR doesn’t therefore equate to the opposite extream of unworthiness was priceless to me when i read it. I hope to carry that inspired thought with my always. – for me or anyone i meet. The more I think about it the more I feel the this extream alternative black and white thinking is propagated by the advasary in our minds ie. Giving you the feeling continually you don’t belong- At times I was starting to hear the destructive words in my mind: “if you and your little family aren’t all the way in- and dont fit the mold 100% you aught to just give up! …You don’t belong here with your differences- and your not welcome in this club because your name is not on a speacial list that gets handed around in most top level meetings. They are all starring at you wondering what your ” hang-up is? Laziness for Duty, Pornography, WoW, Tithing, Question Church Docterine?”
I can (in my weak moments) just feel Satin making me believe these ?’s/ wheels are turning in the heads of all you brush shoulders with continually…. But now my strength to not care what others think is renewed. Roy your will to fight
through (what i assume) are the occasional same thoughts at times for the good of you and your family inspires me. Thank God for you-Thank God for this community.
I haven’t bothered with a TR in about 8 years or so. I don’t in the least feel unworthy to be in the temple or to commune with God. I would stand in front of His judgement throne with peace (if there was such thing). I would like to go to the temple. I actually have little or no problem with it, like a lot of people do. But I don’t fit the criteria of the people who own the building. I’m really just a little too far outside the box, even if I am OK with that. Not having a TR also makes me automatically ineligible for most of the callings I wouldn’t want. It also puts me on a lower threshold regarding potential friction with the institution.
I am totally cool with folks like Ray or anyone else who keeps up a TR. Power to you all! Really. It’s all good. People should do that. People should also let go too, if it causes them more angst and anxiety than it is worth.
Brian Johnston wrote:…
But I don’t fit the criteria of the people who own the building. I’m really just a little too far outside the box, even if I am OK with that. Not having a TR also makes me automatically ineligible for most of the callings I wouldn’t want. It also puts me on a lower threshold regarding potential friction with the institution.I am totally cool with folks like Ray or anyone else who keeps up a TR. Power to you all! Really. It’s all good. People should do that.
People should also let go too, if it causes them more angst and anxiety than it is worth. I think this is a really healthy way to view it, and I have worked hard to get to this point over the last two years since finding staylds.
I’m pretty well at peace with it – I don’t care any more, but, I do feel for the my poor BP, who keeps giving me callings and jobs to help out the branch, only to have the SP put the kibosh on the whole process.
Such is life in this fallen sphere.
Brian Johnston wrote:Not having a TR also makes me automatically ineligible for most of the callings I wouldn’t want. It also puts me on a lower threshold regarding potential friction with the institution.
My thoughts exactly. And as I’ve been more in touch with my true feelings about my Church experience, I never really enjoyed the temple experience. For someone who dislikes structure, it was always a very stifling process for me as people were always correcting me about procedure, how I was wearing the clothing, and when I experimented with being a veil worker, people were always correcting me about procedure. It was the worst for me personally given my creative side.
And yes, my experience as a leader has put me in a position where I don’t want to be in a high profile leadership calling at this time — so not having a TR actually provides a certain kind of protection or insulation from requests to do so.
My only concern is — what do I say when they come asking? I guess I’ll have to cross that bridge when I come to it so as not to reduce my options for the future.
SilentDawning wrote:My only concern is — what do I say when they come asking? I guess I’ll have to cross that bridge when I come to it so as not to reduce my options for the future.
This is verbatim what I say: “You know, I’m just not really into that right now. It’s not something I want. Thank you for asking about it.” I smile, shake their hand, and let it go (walk away). I don’t explain the details. I don’t ask for validation or approval from them. I don’t ask for permission not to have a TR.
Wow Brian and SD, your recent posts are very thought provoking for where I would want to be in my heart, I’ve been without a TR about the same 8-years Brian mentioned but been able to really dodge a lot of confrontation with well meaning leaders or even personal thought processing regarding the matter because of my frequent moves over the last ten years. You guys present an authentic confidence, strength and practicality about the matter for yourselves while being happy for those that choose just the opposite for themselves. True Christians behavior without envy or spite for others who differently view the subject of TR worthiness and attendance as their worth before God. I too have always found a level of comfort in non-TR holding but it’s reason is one I’ve not heard from others before so I would love an opinion. It seems without a doubt for myself I feel much less “Pride and Judgement in my interactions with others- members and non members alike during my years as an adult being a mostly regular active member but not holding this Top Level TR distinction most of the time. Its a strange dichotomy I suppose (those feelings) they put me in a uniqe position of being more humble and Christlike in my daily dealings because due to my upbringing and belief in my non TR state i have no ground whatsoever to look down my nose at anyone- a daily thought that probally universally comes less for those who may have (as our human state presents) a feeling their much closer to their current “calling and election is made sure”. This idea of an ounce of pride can be more destructive than a pound of what TB,s might see as stagnant progression in my current LDS state (even many a TB could agree with that it seems) gives me a somewhat still peacfulness that my path is
unorthadoxly celestial (for the lack of a better word). Am i unique on this feeling?
Oh ps. it also seems there is a component of me that is additionaslly at this Decision because of a feeling of bucking the
trend against a very number centric church (I’ve seen my share of fudged numbers and dishonesty even at high levels
because of the constant preoccupation of this LDS centric practice), however this does not play near the role of import as
the main topic of this post. And lastly having said all this I still (strangely i suppose) feel like it is a goal I would like to work for over the years on my own timeline instead of being rushed by some fear of fire-filled damnation. Ie. A trip back to Mecca later in life as do many others observe in the world.Thoughts?
I never thought of non-TR holding as an alternate path to humility. But I can see it. Interesting thought. For me personally, I never thought of myself better than anyone because I had a TR — it was just something I was supposed to do. But I know that with our tendencies toward judgmentalism as a Church, the whole concept of TR holders vs non TR holders might cause significant judgmentalism in others.
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