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BYU study says the problem with porn use is the stigma, not the actual usage. Porn’s bad for relationships because the church says it is, and labeling anyone who has looked at it as an addict is not helpful. Short 5 min story with transcript is at http://kuer.org/post/religious-communities-stigma-pornography-brings-consequences-its-own#stream/0 That’s a great article. It makes me feel so much better about myself as a person who isn’t quite addictedto porn, but is somewhat compulsive with it. It’s hairsplitting for sure, but I don’t like the label “addict” even when some degree of addiction is present. I’m dying to give a talk or lesson on pornography so I can bring this kind of thing up. I want to say something like “I struggle with porn, and at least a quarter of the guys in this ward do too. Get over it. Let’s talk about it. Let’s get it out in the open. Let’s stop making it a point of shame and secrecy, because in doing so, we are making the problem worse. Yes, porn can be damaging and destructive, but only if we let it fester in shame and secrecy. I’m not saying it’s morally okay to look at porn, but you are going to be okay if it’s a problem for you.”
gospeltangents wrote:
Porn’s bad for relationships because the church says it is, and labeling anyone who has looked at it as an addict is not helpful.
Disagree with the first part, agree with the second. I no longer by into the “because the Church has said so” mentality. But Porn has been shown conclusively to be bad, both for relationships, and for a person’s psychophysiological health. Anytime a person, like Paul, feels, “For what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.” signifies an unhealthy loss of self control.
It is an addiction, but I do not like the term “addict”. It defines a person by an action from which they want to disassociate themselves.
I do think that porn CAN be bad for a relationship. But I think I would agree with the study and would say that the BIGGER issue CAN be that feeling so bad about it will harm any relationship. Also the secrecy can harm a relationship. I just heard of a podcast that an LDS couple that the wife has accepted that her husband will look at porn a bit and she has come to be kind of OK with that. The husband was suicidal about the issue until he finally just said he couldn’t fight it and confessed to his wife that he probably wouldn’t be able to stop. It was very interesting.
Genuine p addiction exists. A friend of miy parents was a bookseller and use to buy up libraries. Well, one day he got invited to look at a dead man’s library and it was massive and consisted of p. That is addiction. Here are a few of the issues –
* Give you unrealistic expectations of the act and people’s bodies.
* Will lead you on to stronger and stranger things which will affect you otherwise.
* Will eat up your time and possibly your money.
* Finances some very evil people.
Beefster wrote:
at least a quarter of the guys in this ward do too.
My experience in my local area and family is that that more like 90% of guys do and 60% of girls do. I’d bet that if you look up on the stand at ward or stake conference the majority of the men sitting there hide it. Virtually every young man in the church struggles with it, which is not pleasant to think about as you take the sacrament each week.
Psychologists I’ve spoken to say that porn doesn’t fit the traditional medical definition of “addiction” but that some behaviors are similar to addiction. I don’t know enough to say whether it meets the technical addiction but it seems to drive almost uncontrollable compulsion to view it. That being said, I don’t think it has quite the same degree of negative consequences as say drug addiction. Maybe it does and I just don’t know it…
Quote:Genuine p addiction exists
Of course, but most Mormons are not addicted to porn. In order to be addicted, it is much more severe than simply looking at it once/week. It has to be so habitual that it is causing problems with your job, you get arrested, or something like that. That doesn’t describe most Mormons.
I agree that the word addiction is overused. Am I addicted to video games, TV, eating out, or soda? In addition, My sexual clock is set to about once every three days (I understand that to be fairly average). Therefore sexual intimacy in my marriage is about a twice a week thing. I have not tried to stop but I imagine that I would have severe difficulty doing so. Am I a sexual addict? Unfortunately bishops are still referring YM to the addiction recovery program for P and M use 1 to 3 times per week. Why would this young person be an addict and I not?
Roy wrote:
Why would this young person be an addict and I not?
Because if you were told you couldn’t do it at all, you might just walk away from the church.Roadrunner wrote:My experience in my local area and family is that that more like 90% of guys do and 60% of girls do. I’d bet that if you look up on the stand at ward or stake conference the majority of the men sitting there hide it. Virtually every young man in the church struggles with it, which is not pleasant to think about as you take the sacrament each week.
I agree. I wish I knew what to tell our youth/young adults. I wound up having a frank conversation about this statistic with my YSA sister a few years ago when she was getting married, and I am not sure she believed me. I think that some of the marriage problems we are seeing is because of this circumstance – we candy coat/hide the behaviors and then leave it up to people to deal with the fallout of those choices in their choices towards themselves, their relationships, and in counseling.
Roadrunner wrote:
Psychologists I’ve spoken to say that porn doesn’t fit the traditional medical definition of “addiction” but that some behaviors are similar to addiction. I don’t know enough to say whether it meets the technical addiction but it seems to drive almost uncontrollable compulsion to view it. That being said, I don’t think it has quite the same degree of negative consequences as say drug addiction. Maybe it does and I just don’t know it…
I think that there is an addiction component to this topic. However, while I have thought about it a lot, I haven’t figured out where the line between normal and addiction is yet.
I do know that there are negative consequences to p. I can see where it can contribute to marriage issues – especially where lying is involved. I can see where it can be blown out of proportion and divide spouses further. I can see where the resources (time, money, emotional) spent on p can be detrimental to the family.
AmyJ wrote:
I do know that there are negative consequences to p. I can see where it can contribute to marriage issues – especially where lying is involved. I can see where it can be blown out of proportion and divide spouses further. I can see where the resources (time, money, emotional) spent on p can be detrimental to the family.
I think that it is important to emphasize that nobody is saying that P use does not have consequences nor (I believe) that it is not habit forming. The study is saying that these things do not necessarily make an addiction and further that applying the addiction label has negative consequences all on its own.
gospeltangents wrote:
Of course, but most Mormons are not addicted to porn. In order to be addicted, it is much more severe than simply looking at it once/week. It has to be so habitual that it is causing problems with your job, you get arrested, or something like that. That doesn’t describe most Mormons.
I agree with this. Again, labeling pubescent sexuality as addiction is very problematic.
Roy wrote:
I think that it is important to emphasize that nobody is saying that P use does not have consequences nor (I believe) that it is not habit forming. The study is saying that these things do not necessarily make an addictionAbsolutely. I do fear the casual user being labeled an “addict” while the true addict shrugging it off as “just a habit”. Since it is a spectrum of use with hushed, vaguely defined terms and (sometimes unrealistic) expectations, it is a loaded grenade waiting to go off and send shrapnel everywhere.
Roy wrote:
and further that applying the addiction label has negative consequences all on its own.However, sometimes the shock value of “addiction” gets through where “habit causing problems” doesn’t and helps get down to the root causes of the behavior(s) – which may not be (and probably isn’t) the behaviors themselves.
What do you think is worse…needing to drink coffee every morning and being addicted to it, or consuming porn regularly and being addicted to it? Seems like addiction in both these cases can be overused and create psychological barriers and bruises.
Most doctors would agree that both are fairly normal and harmless to consume.
Perhaps consumption of both affects some people way more than others, and can be dangerous to some people.
But they both have a stigma in the church. Which is worse?
Heber13 wrote:
What do you think is worse…needing to drink coffee every morning and being addicted to it, or consuming porn regularly and being addicted to it?
On their own independent of other circumstances, I consider them personal choices equal in scope.
But if my need for coffee takes up several hours a day, or causes a family member extreme angst because they were conditioned to treat it as poison and that was not resolvable, well that may change things. If my spouse considered my coffee-drinking an insult against their coffee bean growing abilities, that would also change things. If I am spending too many family resources on premiere coffee that my children actually need for survival, that changes things. If there is no conversation about my coffee habits because of anger and stonewalling, that is a clear sign that something needs to change.
I think the greatest harm that p does is set the spouses against themselves in expectations. we set the expectation up that our youth won’t have to think about these choices, that they are default “wrong”, and then when everything doesn’t proceed to plan and these choices have to be thought out, we hand them nothing.
Heber13 wrote:
Perhaps consumption of both affects some people way more than others, and can be dangerous to some people.
I think that there is a segment of society that tends to take habits towards addictions – they are biologically wired to do so. I think that if keeping the behavior labeled as an “addiction” instead of a “habit” is useful because it validates the seriousness of what they are fighting.
I do think that the church labels things as “addictions” that may not necessarily be addictions. I think that what matters more is the support shown to the individual – “addiction” or “habit” – and that is something we are not comfortable giving as a church.
AmyJ wrote:
I think that there is a segment of society that tends to take habits towards addictions
YES! And I think that does us all a disservice from muddying the waters.
Instead of talking to EVERYBODY in extremes about the dangers of certain behaviors…how about just framing it so those with a propensity for something deal with their “habit” more strictly than others who don’t need to, and avoid everyone having to bow to the lowest common denominator?
I wish more things about church rules were “not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days”.
I guess I think we should teach people more about habits, and avoid calling everything a sin that muddies things.
IDK. Maybe leaders have a larger view of things than I do, as they talk to lots of bishops who talk to lots of people and see lots of trends. I just think the “way” bishops talk to people is not always wise…and so that muddies the feedback to leaders from the source.
I have had lots of people say ARP is a good thing. I don’t know what to make of it. I like the church providing resources, but it also seems they are adding to problems that need the resources to help. It’s a chicken and egg type problem area, I think.
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