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I have serious questions regarding to appropriateness of church leaders asking other people, specifically another persons child about private and spiritual things. To provide context to my concern, I was introduced to the church when I was about 17 years old and was baptized when I was 19. I was not raised in any faith of any sort, but I was a very intuitively spiritual child. For me the decision to be baptized was not about a conversion but about finding a place where the beliefs I had come to know as a child were confirmed as compared to the illogic of the few protestant faiths I had been introduced to by friends as a teen.
I did not comprehend the decision and commitment I was making -socially or spiritually. I just knew that things I has come to know by walking through a horse pasture picking blackberries and talking to the sky were suddenly confirmed by a church -things like eternal progression, eternal families, that the trinity and an unknowable god didn’t make sense, that some people are out of luck if they weren’t chosen or saved, etc.
So, onto the topic of temple recommend interviews. . .I think that I was not disturbed by the temple recommend interview questions when I was younger because I was used to being subject to authoritative rule. As I matured, the questions bothered me more but I went on with it I because, by that time, I had married into it. For the past few years as I have watched my children grow and as I have spent over a decade undaunting in protecting and defending their autonomy, I have developed a heightened awareness of potential threats to this autonomy.
The thought of an “authority” questioning my child behind closed doors about deeply personal topics, particularly faith and chastity, but really any “worthiness” is profoundly upsetting to me.
Anyone having that sort of access to my child triggers a strong emotional and maternal reaction. I feel adrenaline rushes as I ponder the topic.
I certainly can’t be the only mama bear. How have others handled this situation? Did you address this with church leaders? If so, how did they respond? Were you able to find peace and allow the interview to take place?
I’ve decided that at minimum, if I find a was to make peace with the situation, I want to have a series of preparatory discussions with each child at the appropriate time. I would go over the questions and possible answers. I would clarify boundaries and reiterate that they do not have to participate in any act or conversation that makes them uncomfortable, etc. But even after thinking through that in detail, I am deeply upset at the idea of someone having that sort of access to my child and his or her mind and emotions
I agree completely. It is beyond inappropriate to allow adults in authority over children and teens interview them about sexual matters. I asked my husband if it would be ok if our daughters teacher sat her in a closed room and asked her if she masturbates at 12? He only replied that the it was different because church leaders had the priesthood. I then asked does that mean the priesthood prevents men from molestimg children because there are enough documented lds cases to prove that wishful thinking wrong. Beyond that it sets our youth up for being groomed by other people wether in the church or out of it. It is such a dangerous practice. I meet with the bishop first and let him know that all interviews were to have me present in the room period. He got visibly frustrated and said that I should “respect his priesthood authority and have faith in how God wants his church run.” I replied that was great he had “authority” but he wouldn’t be using it alone with my 12 year old child. Then it turned into but how will the boy feel comfortable discussing sensitive things if I’m there? Which I responded that masturbation, porn use and even sex are not important enough issues to allow said child to think it is normal for kids to talk about with adults period outside of family. He asked again for me to have faith in Gods church structure and the priesthood authority and leaders. I said thanks but would you like me to show you a list of priesthood leaders on the sex offenders list? That made him quiet. The biggest point I tried to stress was that it sets up kids to be groomed outside of the bishops office. He just couldn’t understand that point.
I sat in the room for the interview and things went well even the chasity question. Well see as he ages how things evolve but I have told my 12 year old that most matters except direct sex since it involves another person directly can be resolved between himself and The Lord. I’m sure as he ages he will ask me to stay out of the interview on his own which is different at 17 vs 12. Good luck with how you handle it. Wish the church would do away with this practice!
I think most, if not all, of us here are concerned about this issue. I have no problem with a Bishop asking if someone is obeying the Law of Chastity, but I don’t want it to go ANY further than that. There are plenty of ways to accomplish the core objective that don’t involve the potential pitfalls of how it is done too often now. Back in November 2011, I wrote a post on my personal blog about this exact topic that generated an interesting comment thread. It was called “Sex and Bishop’s Youth Interviews”. I can’t copy the link or url from the device I am using right now, but if you search for that title at
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com , you can read it.wishful_thinking wrote:
So, onto the topic of temple recommend interviews. . .I think that I was not disturbed by the temple recommend interview questions when I was younger because I was used to being subject to authoritative rule. As I matured, the questions bothered me more but I went on with it I because, by that time, I had married into it. For the past few years as I have watched my children grow and as I have spent over a decade undaunting in protecting and defending their autonomy, I have developed a heightened awareness of potential threats to this autonomy.The thought of an “authority” questioning my child behind closed doors about deeply personal topics, particularly faith and chastity, but really any “worthiness” is profoundly upsetting to me.
Anyone having that sort of access to my child triggers a strong emotional and maternal reaction. I feel adrenaline rushes as I ponder the topic.
I certainly can’t be the only mama bear. How have others handled this situation? Did you address this with church leaders? If so, how did they respond? Were you able to find peace and allow the interview to take place?
I’ve decided that at minimum, if I find a was to make peace with the situation, I want to have a series of preparatory discussions with each child at the appropriate time. I would go over the questions and possible answers. I would clarify boundaries and reiterate that they do not have to participate in any act or conversation that makes them uncomfortable, etc. But even after thinking through that in detail, I am deeply upset at the idea of someone having that sort of access to my child and his or her mind and emotions
Hi, wishful_thinking – Glad you’re here:wave: I don’t have a quick answer to this, but I identify with everything you’re saying. I’m not sure what my inner mama bear should do. I grew up with no boundaries; the church and its representatives were free to roam over every inch of my life. And, fortunately, thatwasn’tan all-bad thing. But now I see the ways in which it harmed me and the potential harm it could do my kids. It’s a question I’m working on. This will be an interesting thread. wishful_thinking wrote:I have serious questions regarding to appropriateness of church leaders asking other people, specifically another persons child about private and spiritual things.
Agreed. I broke a relationship with an LDS counselor for a while because my daughter shared things about the dynamics of our family that I was uncomfortable with. The purpose of the counseling was to address an issue that was unrelated to our family culture (bullying at church). I found out later that much of the discussion centered around what the counselor believed was dysfunction in our family. At one point my daughter took a picture of my private space in our home for sharing with her counselor.
I spend most of my time at a desk in an office. I’ll confess — after 20 years of problems with domestic support in our home that nearly broke it, my threshold for mess has gotten much higher than it was when I was younger. It’s what “gave” when I could not get support for cleaning from anyone else in our family.
To have my daughter taking pictures of my private space and sharing them with an adult I had never met was disturbing to me. Same with priesthood interviews. The priesthoods authority doesn’t give them unfettered access to knowledge about details of my life, as some people believe. We only have to share what we want to share.
As a youth, I was asked about chastity in a very general way. Nothing else. How wide-spread are very specific questions?? My older DD was in a BYU RS meeting wherein the bishop came in and gave a lesson on the evils of masturbation. DD said it was the quietest RS lesson she had ever been in.
Many here (and not here)share your concerns, wishful_thinking. I know some people who either sit in the interviews or insist they be conducted with the door at least partly open and sit outside. In answer to AP’s question I think it is pretty much leadership roulette. I think some bishops specifically ask about things like masturbation while others are much more general and only ask “Do you live the law of chastity?” and then only in a TR interview. I am not sure what the current instruction handbook 1 includes.
DarkJedi wrote:Many here (and not here)share your concerns, wishful_thinking. I know some people who either sit in the interviews or insist they be conducted with the door at least partly open and sit outside.
In answer to AP’s question I think it is pretty much leadership roulette. I think some bishops specifically ask about things like masturbation while others are much more general and only ask “Do you live the law of chastity?” and then only in a TR interview. I am not sure what the current instruction handbook 1 includes.
I was asked about it in my SP interview before my mission. One of my companions said his SP asked him about “self-abuse”, meaning masterbation. I think sometimes the way the leaders even approach adults about it can be unhealthy.
As a percent, I think those who go beyond the simple Law of Chastity question are a very small minority – but it happens enough to be a concern. My husband said he was asked about it at 12 and told the bishop he didn’t know what that was (a whole other topic, I emhave issues with). But he was just told to go ask his parents. So, the bishop’s response was appropriate. But I do not want anyone asked about it because it really isn’t a worthiness issue and I refuse to have my children have unhealthy ideas about it. If masturbation was explicitly banned, that would be a deal breaker for me. So, for me the most upsetting part is the opportunity for sexual matters to be discussed -mostly because I have very specific ideas of how I want to talk with my children about it and because I want them them maintain healthy attitudes about sex and their bodies and to feel confident in setting boundaries. Those things seem like they can be handled by coaching my children ahead of time and by talking with leaders to set/clarify expectations. But the process I went through to arrive at those conclusions left me wondering about the idea of a temple recommend interview in general. I feel that no one should have “authority” to question someone else on their beliefs. The only way I can swallow that horse pill that that I understand why granting public access to the temple would not work well. And maybe this is a topic for another thread but I go down a whole trail of thinking surrounding the necessity of ordinances (temple or not). It is all symbolic. I don’t believe there is anything “magical” about going underwater or eating bread or wearing clothing, etc. I also don’t think God needs us to do those things. We are physical beings and ordinances are physical acts to help us. Any way, when I go down lines of thinking like that, it makes me want to go back to picking blackberries in a field where I found all of the answers within myself and spiritual and eternal truths came uneventfully and peacefully. No one told me anything, no one asked me anything, no one required anything. I was just me and Truth. And that is why I have a hard time submitting to interviews on personal and spiritual matters, sexual topics aside.
Quote:I asked my husband if it would be ok if our daughters teacher sat her in a closed room and asked her if she masturbates at 12?
On the flipside, do you think most men would be comfortable asking such a question? I know that it is a question that comes out of the handbook, and so perhaps there’s the problem.
As a bishop (which I don’t think I’m ever likely to be), I wouldn’t like this aspect of the calling.
I would lean towards talking with my children ahead of time to prepare them for the questions. I am assuming that the interview is for something that my child wants to do (like go on a temple baptism trip). If they want to go and the interview is a prerequisite then I would prepare them for it. I would tell them that the law of chastity is to not have sexual relations with anyone besides your spouse.
As far as molestation and grooming, we have done the following in hopes of making our children into poor targets:
1) Teach them proper anatomical terms for their body parts. (This helps children have the proper vocabulary to report abuse and reduces the taboo associated with private parts)
2) As a family living in close quarters we see each other in various states of undress. (This hopefully helps with the taboo aspect)
3) In sports and private conversation we try to highlight how cool bodies are in what they can do and accomplish.
4) We have had periodic lessons about personal space and appropriate touching. Most recently we made this the topic of a FHE lesson. (that if someone touched them inappropriately they would not be in trouble and should tell us or another trusted adult immeadiately. We even told them that if the perpetrator asked them to keep it a secret then it would be ok to lie and promise not to tell in order to get safely away.)
My children are not yet 10, so you can take this with a grain of salt as untested thoery at this point. Just my thoughts.
Quote:Any way, when I go down lines of thinking like that, it makes me want to go back to picking blackberries in a field where I found all of the answers within myself and spiritual and eternal truths came uneventfully and peacefully. No one told me anything, no one asked me anything, no one required anything. I was just me and Truth.
That is a true and lovely personal experience – then humans step in with their rules, hierarchies, and dogmas and mess it up. The trick is to live in and navigate a world with both personal identity/autonomy/revelation and the organizations and communities set up by others. This is an ongoing struggle and I believe it is part of what it means to be human.
SamBee wrote:The trick is to live in and navigate a world with both personal identity/autonomy/revelation and the organizations and communities set up by others.
That really is the key for me. The introverted libertarian in me really struggles with this in many aspects of life. Anarchy isn’t the answer, but I am a live-and-let-live person to the core. One core law/doctrine I believe in is that one persons rights end where another persons rights begin. After that, it gets muddy.
So, for me this will involve a cost-benefit analysis -the benefit of belonging to community with a strong support network vs. the cost of invasion of privacy. Good food for thought with no obvious answer for me.
I am actually more worried about my daughter than my sons, but she is already an adult and can handle herself fine. My son’s I have recently told the bishop that I didn’t want him to ask anything beyond “are you living the law of chastity?” and he can expect if he probes more with my son’s that I have already instructed them to reply with, “I think I answered that question, can we keep to the questions, Next question please.” I have no worries about my current bishop, but I want to push this issue that it gets discussed more at things like Bishopric welfare meeting.
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